HomeCalendarFAQSearchMemberlistUsergroupsRegisterLog in
Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
Latest topics
» Info on '46 $2 token
Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:28 pm by erl

» Dos Mundos/ 8 Reales Columnario real/fake?
Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:04 pm by filipinonumismatist

» How to serermine a guerilla note's value?
Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:14 am by elee

» English series mint set
Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:03 pm by filipinonumismatist

» Singaporean Currency
Sun May 04, 2014 8:36 am by erl

» Misspelled Philippines on 1941M 20 centavos
Sat May 03, 2014 2:53 am by laki_sa_layaw

» Batas sa pagdala ng silver coin sa Pilipinas
Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:12 pm by filipinonumismatist

» Guide on Buying Philippine Counterstamp coins
Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:31 pm by filipinonumismatist

» 1964 50 Centavo
Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:45 am by filipinonumismatist

Top posters
al.plata
 
tracy1947
 
filipinonumismatist
 
ericgo
 
josie
 
lizjensen001
 
abe
 
DIC
 
kolektor
 
Newbie
 
Most Viewed Topics
Philippine Future Bullion Coins
United States Coins
Quiapo Coin Prices
Dos Mundos/ 8 Reales Columnario real/fake?
Philippine Gold Coins
What is the fair value of the 1828 manila 8 Reales in PCGS XF40
Bayanihan Collectors club Auction May 30, 2010
BNSP Auction
How rare is this coin? and value please..
1907-S one peso, rare or common?
Poll
Most active topics
United States Coins
Philippine Future Bullion Coins
Quiapo Coin Prices
Dos Mundos/ 8 Reales Columnario real/fake?
Philippine Gold Coins
How rare is this coin? and value please..
Cleaning coins / bank notes
Auction Results
PHILIPPINES CURRENCY?
What is the fair value of the 1828 manila 8 Reales in PCGS XF40
Most active topic starters
al.plata
 
filipinonumismatist
 
josie
 
lizjensen001
 
Kalookan
 
nic
 
abe
 
DIC
 
Rudi Smits
 
edbsbc78
 
Share | 
 

 Mexico 1770-MoMF 8 Reales with counterstamp real?

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : 1, 2  Next
AuthorMessage
SankaCCI



Posts: 2
Points: 4240
Reputation: 0
Join date: 2013-08-29

PostSubject: Mexico 1770-MoMF 8 Reales with counterstamp real?   Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:26 pm

I have got this coin with unusual counterstamp. I've never seen something like that before. Any advice? Thank you. Weight: 26.6g




Back to top Go down
filipinonumismatist
Admin


Posts: 271
Points: 45674
Reputation: 11
Join date: 2009-02-20

PostSubject: Re: Mexico 1770-MoMF 8 Reales with counterstamp real?   Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:13 pm

The host coin seems genuine but can you provide a closer picture of the counterstamp and the coin's rim. This is a bust regal counterstamp of Great Britain in the late 1700. Thanks.
Back to top Go down
http://forum.filipinonumismatist.com
SankaCCI



Posts: 2
Points: 4240
Reputation: 0
Join date: 2013-08-29

PostSubject: Re: Mexico 1770-MoMF 8 Reales with counterstamp real?   Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:29 pm

Thank you for your respond. Please check out detailed snapshots. I've been searching through internet for days and couldn't find out how to determine this coin and give it a right value. Can you also give me a bit advice where can I value it? thank you.



Back to top Go down
filipinonumismatist
Admin


Posts: 271
Points: 45674
Reputation: 11
Join date: 2009-02-20

PostSubject: Re: Mexico 1770-MoMF 8 Reales with counterstamp real?   Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:07 pm

Hi again,

The coin and the counterstamp seems both genuine.  This is George III of England counterstamp when England had shortage of coins.  They used coins from other countries revalidating them by using counterstamp with the bust of George III.


FN
Back to top Go down
http://forum.filipinonumismatist.com
filipinonumismatist
Admin


Posts: 271
Points: 45674
Reputation: 11
Join date: 2009-02-20

PostSubject: Re: Mexico 1770-MoMF 8 Reales with counterstamp real?   Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:12 am

Hi again SankaCCI,

After careful examination of your coin, it seem that this coin is a a modern day fake. Sorry for my first comment but I had to get back to my collection of counterfeit and genuine dos mondos so I could compare your coin with them. It seem that this is an improved modern day Chinese fake. My previous specimen compared to yours are not that good and seem that the makers of coins such as yours have already perfected copying the real dos mondos. I myself have almost been fooled by this coin because the rim has already improve and otherwise the legend. Modern day fakes are almost as good as the genuine coins if not for some noticeable details for the trained eye. The counterstamp otherwise is also a fake so I feel sorry for your purchase. By the way, how did you acquire this coin?Sad 

FN
Back to top Go down
http://forum.filipinonumismatist.com
filipinonumismatist
Admin


Posts: 271
Points: 45674
Reputation: 11
Join date: 2009-02-20

PostSubject: Re: Mexico 1770-MoMF 8 Reales with counterstamp real?   Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:27 am

Here is a genuine GB counterstamp on a dos mondos.  This coin was sold for $3250 at Heritage World Coin Auction.


Back to top Go down
http://forum.filipinonumismatist.com
kolektor



Posts: 108
Points: 28634
Reputation: 7
Join date: 2009-02-26

PostSubject: Re: Mexico 1770-MoMF 8 Reales with counterstamp real?   Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:23 am

Hi FN,

How come that this coin is fake, it seem genuine to me. Can you please tell us the difference between the genuine coin and the fake coin. I still don't get it. Thanks!
Back to top Go down
filipinonumismatist
Admin


Posts: 271
Points: 45674
Reputation: 11
Join date: 2009-02-20

PostSubject: Re: Mexico 1770-MoMF 8 Reales with counterstamp real?   Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:53 am

Hi kolektor,

The most recognizable characteristics of the modern day fake dos mondos are the rim, the edge, the legend, and the wave. Fake dos mondos have "trident pattern rim" compared to "tulip pattern rim" of the authentic. Fake one have "sharper toothed edges" unlike that of the authentic. The legend lettering of the fake ones are patterned over the portrait Mexican 8 reales particularly those minted in Zecatecas and finally, there is a wider gap between the globe and the waves on the fake dos mondos coins.
Back to top Go down
http://forum.filipinonumismatist.com
vensinton



Posts: 40
Points: 15402
Reputation: 0
Join date: 2011-11-02

PostSubject: Re: Mexico 1770-MoMF 8 Reales with counterstamp real?   Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:16 pm

Hi Kolektor,

Normally, counterstamp coins do not wear as much, and a great amount of detail remains with the host coin. Of course, how much detail remains in the counterstamp still depends on the overall wear of the host coin.

In my opinion, host coin is real, stamp is fake - just as filipinonumismatist said.

Hope this helps.
Back to top Go down
filipinonumismatist
Admin


Posts: 271
Points: 45674
Reputation: 11
Join date: 2009-02-20

PostSubject: Re: Mexico 1770-MoMF 8 Reales with counterstamp real?   Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:13 pm

@vensinton

Hi,

I appreciate your very good observation however, I regret to inform you that even the host coin is definitely a modern fake.  I have studied the dos mondos coins from genuine, counterfeit, and modern fakes.  Excellent fakes nowadays are very hard to tell because they are also made of silver outside and of the exact weight and Fakers have also learned how to tone silver reales correctly.

However, these are the simplest clues you have to use to determine the authenticity of the dos mondos if weight and material have failed your judgment.  Dos mondos letters have strong footing compared to fakes with two-toed footing on the bases of the letters particularly recognizable on letters "A" and "R".  

Dos mondos edges otherwise have close toothed edges unlike that of fake ones which have sharp toothed edges which resembles that of cones.

The rim of the fake coin also looks like that of trident rather than a tulip.  Here are the comparisons below:

Thank you for your comment!Very Happy 



GENUINE



GENUINE




FAKE


Back to top Go down
http://forum.filipinonumismatist.com
vensinton



Posts: 40
Points: 15402
Reputation: 0
Join date: 2011-11-02

PostSubject: Re: Mexico 1770-MoMF 8 Reales with counterstamp real?   Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:36 am

Hi Filipinonumismatist,

Actually I didn't pay attention with there host coin as much. I have very good experience with detecting fake coins but I would need to see and hold them in person. I wouldn't be surprised if this one was a fake as well because it has an obvious fake contestants to it. You can never always be 100% correct all the time. Trust me, I've witnessed some coins, that even dealers who've bought and sold coins from their entire life (decades), could not authenticate. But when it comes to something that completely looks real except for one thing (in this case, the counterstamp), we'll pass.
Back to top Go down
filipinonumismatist
Admin


Posts: 271
Points: 45674
Reputation: 11
Join date: 2009-02-20

PostSubject: Re: Mexico 1770-MoMF 8 Reales with counterstamp real?   Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:29 am

vensinton wrote:
Hi Filipinonumismatist,

Actually I didn't pay attention with there host coin as much. I have very good experience with detecting fake coins but I would need to see and hold them in person. I wouldn't be surprised if this one was a fake as well because it has an obvious fake contestants to it. You can never always be 100% correct all the time. Trust me, I've witnessed some coins, that even dealers who've bought and sold coins from their entire life (decades), could not authenticate. But when it comes to something that completely looks real except for one thing (in this case, the counterstamp), we'll pass.
Yes you are correct, that is why we need such information so the community will know. The hobby is getting complicated each day because of such craftiness. Thanks again.
Back to top Go down
http://forum.filipinonumismatist.com
vensinton



Posts: 40
Points: 15402
Reputation: 0
Join date: 2011-11-02

PostSubject: Re: Mexico 1770-MoMF 8 Reales with counterstamp real?   Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:35 pm

Actually I didn't pay attention with the host coin as much. I have very good experience with detecting fake coins but I would need to see and hold them in person. I wouldn't be surprised if this one was fake just because it has an obviously faked counterstamp. You can never always be 100% correct all the time. Trust me, I've witnessed some coins, that even dealers who've bought and sold coins for their entire lives (decades), could not authenticate. But when it comes to something that completely looks real except for one thing (in this case, the counterstamp), we'll simplt pass.

GOD I HATE AUTO-CORRECT! Just correcting my previous statement
Back to top Go down
vensinton



Posts: 40
Points: 15402
Reputation: 0
Join date: 2011-11-02

PostSubject: Re: Mexico 1770-MoMF 8 Reales with counterstamp real?   Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:40 pm

filipinonumismatist wrote:
vensinton wrote:
Hi Filipinonumismatist,

Actually I didn't pay attention with there host coin as much. I have very good experience with detecting fake coins but I would need to see and hold them in person. I wouldn't be surprised if this one was a fake as well because it has an obvious fake contestants to it. You can never always be 100% correct all the time. Trust me, I've witnessed some coins, that even dealers who've bought and sold coins from their entire life (decades), could not authenticate. But when it comes to something that completely looks real except for one thing (in this case, the counterstamp), we'll pass.
Yes you are correct, that is why we need such information so the community will know.  The hobby is getting complicated each day because of such craftiness.  Thanks again.
Now that I look at the coin in detail, I can tell it is an obvious fake! Just look at how the numbers on the year look like, says it all... the "0" as well... it looks too big and unlike what I've seen before. I have one from 1700s too, with chopmarks on them, and how the year was stamped on mine is completely different. I'll upload the pics if I find it - just for comparison.
Back to top Go down
vensinton



Posts: 40
Points: 15402
Reputation: 0
Join date: 2011-11-02

PostSubject: Re: Mexico 1770-MoMF 8 Reales with counterstamp real?   Sat Sep 28, 2013 12:15 pm




Here is one I bought a year ago. It has Chinese chopmarks. Hispanic coins were circulated in the orient back in the day, and "Authenticated" as genuine silver currencies by merchants by having symbols counterstamped on them; thus, revealing to anyone who holds the coin that it went thru them and passed the test. Also means, they will accept it back for trade. I'm not sure if the characters were randomly selected or stamped, there are many claims out there. Interestingly, mine has the characters 永 and 生 next to each other which if combined means "forever; eternity." Beside the number "9" on the far right, you'll see what looks like a drilling near the edge of the rim; this is how they tested these coins for silver purity.

I grade this at F12 host.
Back to top Go down
 

Mexico 1770-MoMF 8 Reales with counterstamp real?

View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 2Go to page : 1, 2  Next

 Similar topics

-
» Dolphins interested in New Mexico OL Byron Bell
» A Real Young Girl (2010)
» awek phonesex, dan real s*x (matured women)
» China Property Bubble Real Or Imaginary
» Real Desktop By Huhu 1981 Full.rar

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
 ::  :: -
Free forum | © phpBB | Free forum support | Contact | Report an abuse | Free forums