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 Phillippines counterstamp on a mexican iturbide coin

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juanpa



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PostSubject: Phillippines counterstamp on a mexican iturbide coin   Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:51 am

hello , iam new on this forum , i come from mexico, and im very interested in counterstamp and chomp marks coins from mexico , i would like to share this image with you of a coin that i own , and i would like to know if someone has seen something similar in a mexican iturbide coin, it appears to be a type III 1836 cc52 on a 1822 8 reales iturbide.
iturbide was the first emperaror of mexico he fought for the independence in 1821 and he was proclaimed in 1822 and exiled to europe in 1823 . thanks
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filipinonumismatist
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PostSubject: Re: Phillippines counterstamp on a mexican iturbide coin   Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:20 pm

Can you please provide a larger image of the coin particularly the counterstamp. Thank you very much and welcome to this forum!
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juanpa



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PostSubject: yes   Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:18 am

yes, im not very familiar with the program in the forum to upload pictures of higher resolution , but i will try.
saludos
http://i34.servimg.com/u/f34/17/74/19/35/sin_ta10.jpg
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PostSubject: Re: Phillippines counterstamp on a mexican iturbide coin   Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:20 am

Very nice counterstamp on a scarce coin. I also collect Philippine counterstamp coins and trying to update the information of the Spanish colonial counterstamp coinage of the Philippines. How many specimen do you have right now? Thanks for the images, really appreciate it. Very Happy
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vensinton



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PostSubject: Re: Phillippines counterstamp on a mexican iturbide coin   Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:44 am

I want to get myself a few counterstamps myself, although I do not really find them good-looking coins. But they are very interesting. Thanks for sharing an image of this coin in this forum. Much appreciated. Gracias.
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PostSubject: Re: Phillippines counterstamp on a mexican iturbide coin   Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:53 pm

yes, im very interested in the topic too, and study a little bit further the phillippine-mexico relationship, i currently have in the collection 7 coins with f7 , yII counterstamps. I would like to know a little more on the manila countertamp , and how many different types of coins either mexican or from other countries had this same kind of counterstamps, and share some info . thanks
and if anyone wants to get some info in mexican coins please contact me. thanks
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PostSubject: Re: Phillippines counterstamp on a mexican iturbide coin   Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:12 pm

Manila counterstamps are rare, there are 2 types of Manila 1828 counterstamps, type 1 and type 2. The 1830 is rarer with around 4 to 5 specimen known to exist. While the 1829 type as the rarest, and I've only seen once. It does not matter what host coins were used on either of the 3 dates.
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vensinton



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PostSubject: Re: Phillippines counterstamp on a mexican iturbide coin   Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:40 pm

In all honesty, although I would love to collect these coins, I do not find them appealing. Most of them have been dilapidated for some reason. I do not believe it is possible to find counterstamp coins in mint condition. If I'm wrong, that's because I haven't seen any close to the condition after a couple years of search. Also, these coins, because they are "Counterstamped," their surfaces have been overlapped or pressed upon by other dies; so they really look bad compared to coins from other countries of the same era. The only thing that keeps me interested, however, is the amount of history packed in every piece of metal that they are, which remains unique although not limited to the Philippines.
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PostSubject: Re: Phillippines counterstamp on a mexican iturbide coin   Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:23 am

Counterstamping is a a form of revalidation so most likely counterstamped coins are either circulated or dilapidated coins. It was one method utilized by so many colonizing countries due to shortage of coins for distribution in their colonies. Rare that a counterstamped coins have been graded as EF and very rare in AU due to such logical reasons.

Standard grading does not apply to counterstamped coins because the more counterstamps they have, the higher the coin's price. Some counterstamped coins even have counterstamped holes and they are rarer than standard counterstamped coins.

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vensinton



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PostSubject: Re: Phillippines counterstamp on a mexican iturbide coin   Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:22 pm

filipinonumismatist wrote:
Counterstamping is a a form of revalidation so most likely counterstamped coins are either circulated or dilapidated coins. It was one method utilized by so many colonizing countries due to shortage of coins for distribution in their colonies. Rare that a counterstamped coins have been graded as EF and very rare in AU due to such logical reasons.

Standard grading does not apply to counterstamped coins because the more counterstamps they have, the higher the coin's price. Some counterstamped coins even have counterstamped holes and they are rarer than standard counterstamped coins.


Thanks for this info. That's what I've sort of guessed about them, and it's good that you've confirmed this. I've seen pictures of counterstamped coins with counterstamped holes before. They are quite pricier, I should say. I am actually a professional grader and based on what I've seen, it looks like counterstamped coins are primarily graded based on the sharpness of the counterstamp, while the remainder of the surface of the coin is of secondary importance.

I've seen many VF and EF graded ones although I rarely agree to those graded by NGC, and ANACS in the old holders. PCGS is more accurate, but, like all American third-party graders, they tend to use what I'll call "double split grades" that are senseless (eg. VF-25, or VF-35). American-based coin grading is all for profit that's why they do double split grades to overgrade coins. Some ANACS in the old holder (color white) and NGC are so overgraded they are one letter grade away, while PCGS is usually correct, or within the letter grade with a split.
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PostSubject: Re: Phillippines counterstamp on a mexican iturbide coin   Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:44 pm

I agree with you, standardization and so much bureaucracy makes the hobby very difficult nowadays. I think for those of us who are veteran of this hobby, we should better stick to the basic principle of collecting...ENJOYMENT. Either genuine, fake, circulated, or uncirculated they are still part and pieces of interest and history. If we could only reinstate and restore the gentleman's principle, third party grading companies would soon go out of business in no time.



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vensinton



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PostSubject: Re: Phillippines counterstamp on a mexican iturbide coin   Sat Sep 01, 2012 3:13 am

filipinonumismatist wrote:
I agree with you, standardization and so much bureaucracy makes the hobby very difficult nowadays. I think for those of us who are veteran of this hobby, we should better stick to the basic principle of collecting...ENJOYMENT. Either genuine, fake, circulated, or uncirculated they are still part and pieces of interest and history. If we could only reinstate and restore the gentleman's principle, third party grading companies would soon go out of business in no time.




Well, I don't mind them being around. But I hope they would just stick to the fundamental reason why they exist. US graders are very consistent - but consistently overgrading [don't ever touch ICG, by the way]. Graders are here to give people who know little about grading an opportunity to purchase a coin based on its fair market value. But because of the tier-based system, it makes more sense for them to overstate the value of a coin to make more profit. Anyway, I think this message is off-topic. I'll stop here.
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PostSubject: Re: Phillippines counterstamp on a mexican iturbide coin   Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:51 pm

Just want to Welcome Senor Juanpa to the forum.
Great to have somebody from a country where our country, the Philippines has a long historical relations, especially with coins!
Bienvenido!
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PostSubject: Re: Phillippines counterstamp on a mexican iturbide coin   Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:18 pm

edbsbc78 wrote:
Just want to Welcome Senor Juanpa to the forum.
Great to have somebody from a country where our country, the Philippines has a long historical relations, especially with coins!
Bienvenido!
I think it was more or less 5000 USD if I I recall it correctly.
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Phillippines counterstamp on a mexican iturbide coin

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