Currently on ebay auction with a high bid of $1,200.00 and 9 days remaining. This coin was listed twice at $4,500.00 starting price however no one pulled the trigger. What do you think will be the final bid on this? Here is the link. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110472300803&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

In my opinion it's more than $4,500. people aren't pulling the trigger because the economy is bad perhaps. now is actually a bad time to let go of key pieces because there is less money available on the market allocated for coins maybe except for investors but they're mostly into gold. makes no sense to spend big bucks on a coin at these times. unless of course he is unloading precisely because he needs cash due to the bad economy. if i could afford to i would buy that coin. it's arguably unique at that grade.

I think its a counterfeit manila 1828.

On the reverse the "E" in POR El Rey should have a crossbar in the middle of the E. The "1" and the "2" in 1828 is not a typical of other 1 and 2s in other 1828s. Just get 2 pictures of other specimen manila 1828s and compare. The host coin is genuine hence it was graded by pcgs. If the host coin had been fake it would not have been graded by pcgs.

My understanding is if either counterstamp or host coin is counterfeit, then any grading company will not certified the coin. Can anyone provide the image of the real 1828 for comparison?

The easiest way to detect is that the "2" should have a little flick and a tail pointed upwards. This one is stubby at the end and flat. PCGS are human and prone to mistakes. PCGS even graded some chinese fakes before. (not philippine coins). PCGS have even graded altered dates before in the past. These things happen in less than 1% of the coins they grade but it does happen occasionally.

This website is good to compare other examples of 1828

http://manilagalleontrade.webs.com/fernandovii18081833.htm

The images are not big enough to see the details and hard to compare. Assuming you are correct that coin is counterfeit, do you recommend to challenge the seller and have an expert re-examine the coin? Who is the expert on counterstamp here?

PCGS have guaranteed the coin as genuine. They will not change their opinion unless the coin is a cast or a chinese fake. As its a genuine host coin it will remain "genuine" as far as PCGS are concerned and they will stand by their decision.

The seller would not have any motivation in re-submitting the coin to pcgs. What would be the point for them? Either it would come back as counterfeit or it could get a lower grade.

Wow! if that's true then that's a major oversight that will cost someone thousands of dollars. I remember one time this year i saw at ebay a marcos-reagan coin certified by one of the top 3 grading services as "Proof" when obviously it was just BU and someone won it.

These people do make mistakes. They are grading experts not experts on authenticity which is only an ancillary function. These are american based grading services also so Philippine coins arent exactly their forte, maybe except for USPI coins. The real experts are ultimately the collectors themselves.

that CS1828 has been debated on the previous version of filipinonumismatist for a long time... and surely base on comparing it with my counterstamp coins and some coins available in internet.. that thing is a fake.. I don't know why some of the discussion of previous version of FN was not included here.. on that version counterstamp coins are discussed elaborately... even PCGS makes mistakes, they are not expert on Philippine counterstamp coins....

Can you post your 1828 c/s for comparison and also note the difference.

Yes, in fact this is the same coin that was discussed a year ago. I know the name of the owner. I apologized for the closure of the previous forum site because of spam attacks. I would look at my file and share to everyone the picture of the coin.

It is very hard to authenticate counterstamp coins because most experts on this coin passed away before we could even get their share of expertise. Recently, a 1908 fifty centavos with YII and F7 C/S was auctioned at Bayanihan Club. We had to plan the purchase of the coin because we feared that if this go out to Ebay, the market of YII and F7 C/S coins would collapsed. Luckily,the item was pulled out from the auction.