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 Dos Mundos/ 8 Reales Columnario real/fake?

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filipinonumismatist
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PostSubject: Re: Dos Mundos/ 8 Reales Columnario real/fake?   Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:35 pm

In addition to that, medyo malayo yung "1" sa "7" nung 1740. And medyo payat yung mga legends at nakalutang yung globes dun sa pagitan ng pillars sa 1740 8 reales. Salamat sa posting ng coin mo Liz.
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lizjensen001



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PostSubject: Re: Dos Mundos/ 8 Reales Columnario real/fake?   Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:37 pm

filipinonumismatist wrote:
Based sa dies ng 1740 8 reales at 1735 8 reales. Medyo malaki ang pagkakaiba ng 1735 at 1740. Usually mapapansin nyo yung difference ng "dies" sa "dot" sa ibabaw ng letter "M" sa assayer's initial at sa porma ng "F" sa assayers initial pa rin. Tama naman yung die ng 1740 8 reales ni Liz. Maganda rin ang condition nung coin.




Very keen eye!
i honestly dont know much about dos mundos, that's why i seek the opinion of the experts everytime i buy one...
I take a risk everytime i purchase one, i always assume that its a fake instead of assuming that its authentic, that's why everytime i show it to the experts, i feel so much joy finding out that my coins are actually authentic! Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Dos Mundos/ 8 Reales Columnario real/fake?   Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:38 pm

@ericgo

No problem. Later I'll post mga infos about counterstamp coins para additional reference para sa mga gustong mag collect ng YII and F70 counterstamp coins.
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ericgo



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PostSubject: Re: Dos Mundos/ 8 Reales Columnario real/fake?   Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:48 pm

lizjensen001 wrote:
Very keen eye!
i honestly dont know much about dos mundos, that's why i seek the opinion of the experts everytime i buy one...
I take a risk everytime i purchase one, i always assume that its a fake instead of assuming that its authentic, that's why everytime i show it to the experts, i feel so much joy finding out that my coins are actually authentic! Smile

keen eye indeed. sa pagtingin palang ng dalawang picture ng coin mo at coin ni FM naduduling na ako Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Dos Mundos/ 8 Reales Columnario real/fake?   Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:49 pm

filipinonumismatist wrote:
In addition to that, medyo malayo yung "1" sa "7" nung 1740. And medyo payat yung mga legends at nakalutang yung globes dun sa pagitan ng pillars sa 1740 8 reales. Salamat sa posting ng coin mo Liz.

Thanks too for providing us more information...

I have two other dos mundos that i have not shown to anyone.... i havent visited the experts yet kasi... but i will post it here para you can share your opinion.. both has counterstamps na hindi dito sa Philippines. One in Britain ata ....
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PostSubject: Re: Dos Mundos/ 8 Reales Columnario real/fake?   Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:53 pm

Sure, sige i-post mo lang para makita natin. Ano ba yung counterstamp nya? Yung George III na octagonal o yung oval counterstamp?
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ericgo



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PostSubject: Re: Dos Mundos/ 8 Reales Columnario real/fake?   Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:57 pm

filipinonumismatist wrote:
@ericgo

No problem. Later I'll post mga infos about counterstamp coins para additional reference para sa mga gustong mag collect ng YII and F70 counterstamp coins.

that would be great Sir FN! I personally do not even consider going into counterstamped coins at the moment because i have 0 (zero) knowledge about them. Even the dos mundos, i have very little knowledge and like liz depend on others to authenticate coins which i have and/or willing to buy
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PostSubject: Re: Dos Mundos/ 8 Reales Columnario real/fake?   Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:58 pm

lizjensen001 wrote:
both has counterstamps na hindi dito sa Philippines. One in Britain ata ....

please post those if you can. i've never seen a counterstamped dos mundos yet
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PostSubject: Re: Dos Mundos/ 8 Reales Columnario real/fake?   Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:01 pm

filipinonumismatist wrote:
Sure, sige i-post mo lang para makita natin. Ano ba yung counterstamp nya? Yung George III na octagonal o yung oval counterstamp?

one counterstamp is like a mini carolus... (di na ata yun dos mundos am i right?) tapos yung isa square yung counterstamp with a crown on top of the square.. i have the pic, but i dont know how to post it here, i always ask help from DIC kasi...
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PostSubject: Re: Dos Mundos/ 8 Reales Columnario real/fake?   Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:05 pm

yung may counter stamp na "mini carolus" ang itchura, its 4 reales pala.... not 8 reales, year 1777
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PostSubject: Re: Dos Mundos/ 8 Reales Columnario real/fake?   Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:06 pm

ericgo wrote:
lizjensen001 wrote:
both has counterstamps na hindi dito sa Philippines. One in Britain ata ....

please post those if you can. i've never seen a counterstamped dos mundos yet

sure eric! i do have the pics problem is i dont know how to post them here... maybe i will just upload it in my multiply and attach the link here..
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PostSubject: Re: Dos Mundos/ 8 Reales Columnario real/fake?   Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:09 pm

if you upload to your multiply, i can try to post them here.
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PostSubject: 1745 dos mundos counterstamped, please judge   Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:11 pm

http://elizjensen.multiply.com/photos/album/43#photo=25

i'll post the 4 reales tonight and the other dos mundos na 1739 counterstamp i have...
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PostSubject: Re: Dos Mundos/ 8 Reales Columnario real/fake?   Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:16 pm

here's liz's counterstamped dos mundos


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PostSubject: Re: Dos Mundos/ 8 Reales Columnario real/fake?   Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:03 pm

This is an 8 reales with "Crowned arms of Portugal" counterstamp and is listed in Krause Coin Catalog as KM 440.8 and priced USD 500+ in VF. However, this coin is special considering that the host coin is quite rare and a key date in the Dos Mondos coinage so the catalog value of the coin does not follow.

This is one of the most copied coin by modern counterfeiters due to its rarity and fame in the collecting community. thanks for posting it ericgo.
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PostSubject: Re: Dos Mundos/ 8 Reales Columnario real/fake?   Sun Jul 10, 2011 10:09 pm

here's the other one....

ht.com/photos/album/43#photo=30



[img]https://i40.servimg.com/u/f40/16/50/76/31/1739_c1g]


Last edited by lizjensen001 on Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:01 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Dos Mundos/ 8 Reales Columnario real/fake?   Sun Jul 10, 2011 10:25 pm

please judge the other coin i posted above (1739).... these 2 coins i recently posted, i dont assume they are authentic, but i paid quite some for it... so deep inside i do hope its authentic....

Im going to bring these coins soon to my mentors..
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PostSubject: Re: Dos Mundos/ 8 Reales Columnario real/fake?   Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:58 am

It seem that both these coins came from one seller and I have the suspicion that these are modern day Chinese counterfeits. The "die" for 1745 8 reales seem authentic but if both were sold to you side by side. Both of these coins are modern day counterfeits. The 1739 8 reales die is not correct because the globes on the middle of the pillars are not right, the position of the numbers on the date are not also correct, and the letters on the legends are too thin.
I suspect that these coins came from an ebay.ph seller from Visayas which is actually a Chinese counterfeit ring operating in the Philippines. If you could post the edge of the coins, that would be better. The edge should be like that of tulip flower and not a trident pattern. It should have no gaps in between.

Here is an authentic 1739 8 reales for comparison.

Thanks for posting.

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PostSubject: Re: Dos Mundos/ 8 Reales Columnario real/fake?   Mon Jul 11, 2011 9:05 am

The edge or rim should be like this one:

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ericgo



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PostSubject: Re: Dos Mundos/ 8 Reales Columnario real/fake?   Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:01 am

looking at those 2 coins, i wouldn't know if they were authentic or real.

But after what sir FN posted, it would be interesting if the 2 local dealers certified these coins as authentic.
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PostSubject: Re: Dos Mundos/ 8 Reales Columnario real/fake?   Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:36 am

@ericgo

If you'll scrutinize the 2 recent coins, unlike that of Liz's 1740 8 reales both of the recent coins seem to be cast and not struck. The clue is on the coin's legends, the letters are not well-formed although the coin is in excellent condition. I already encountered these kind of coins before, and they are very well made copies of dos mondos. For a neophyte in dos mondos coinage, you will not notice the difference because these coins are also made of silver, the weight is the same as an original dos mondos, and the dies are almost the same. The difference are noticeable only at the rim or edge of the coin and at the collar of the coin. Modern day counterfeits are thicker and have trident pattern edge or rim and the letters on the legends are not well-formed. Most local dealers here in the Philippines are not yet updated regarding this modern day dos mondos because these coins just surfaced recently and most of the sellers are from the Philippines.

Most of these sellers sell russian catherine rouble, swiss thalers, dos mondos with portugal counterstamp, spain 4 reales with george III oval countermark, rare ferdin VII and Carolus III 8 reales, and dos mondos 8 reales. Only a number of private collector have such inventories or collection so it is odd to see a seller have these same set of coins being sold weekly.


Thanks again at ingat kayo sa pamimili ng coins.
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ericgo



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PostSubject: Re: Dos Mundos/ 8 Reales Columnario real/fake?   Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:42 am

sir FN,

Thank you for the information about these coins. i've talked to another collector just last week and he also told me that there are a lot of counterfeit coins coming from china that are of very good quality.
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PostSubject: Re: Dos Mundos/ 8 Reales Columnario real/fake?   Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:07 pm

Magkano kaya ang mga pekeng yan...gusto kong i-add sa collection ko. Magandang study material yan para i-educate yung mga noobs.
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PostSubject: Re: Dos Mundos/ 8 Reales Columnario real/fake?   Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:04 pm

shoot! that was a though one! Smile i will update you guys once i show the coins this wednesday or thursday, honestly, i have no clue when i look at them, i really cant distinguish a real one from a fake, cause i admit, im quite a risk taker when i purchase rare coins... that's why to avoid dissapointment, i always assume they are fake and have it confirmed by an expert...

i will update this page once i've confirmed... if it is indeed fake, its a lesson learned for me, but then it will be a great coin to study...
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PostSubject: Re: Dos Mundos/ 8 Reales Columnario real/fake?   Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:11 pm

Actually, natural experience lang sa bawat collector yan. Ako rin, I purchased fake coins when I started to get serious with collecting coins. Medyo frustrating but that will surely give you a lesson. It is what we call tuition fees.
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